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Topic - Orion Space Plane: 2001 A Space Odyssey

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Jeeze! Page 4 and 3633 views! This is only 5 weeks old, but it seems like months.
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Here's an idea for one of you math genius. Devise a program that compares photographs of a particular object and detects patterns, giving each point a unique identifier, then locates all such identifiers on all the other photos being considered, then translates all that data into a map of the object. Just like you would do if you were devising a navigation program, identifying stars or features on earths surface. Make it so one could feed it known distances between these identifiers, and your program could plot the entire object, in 3D space, for us lazy artists. How difficult could it be?

Clark invented the communication satellite in just this manner. Write it with Nexus. Let me know when you're ready to market it. I'll buy you first version. You don't have to name it after me.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 1/30/2011 - 11:40 PM

Has anyone noticed this intersection? I'd love to hear the story behind this oddity.



It's one of many reasons why I'm drawing my own blueprints. Too many modelers separate them, which is perfectly alright if you want to design an improved model. That could be fun, making this beauty even sexier than she already is. But that's not my goal here and now.


On another note: It turns out that the underside image posted on page 3, was sent to Steve Mavronis by Ian (Stargazer) Walsh, who has been tending this garden of 2001 models for many years, and putting out ever more accurate versions of Orion, as new details emerge. Ian's been one of the most steadfast supporters of modelers, contributing images and well thought out analysis of ship dimensions, when hardly anything was commonly known of these details. He's currently working on the Moonbus model, but I just know he'll be cranking out yet another Orion in the not too distant future.

Bravo Ian Walsh




Ian's latest model of Orion III.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 2/14/2011 - 1:49 AM

I've received from Ian Walsh, an even larger version of the color image posted on page 2 of this thread. This one is a scan of a printing of the image scanned at 300 ppi, and is greyscale. Some features are easier to make out. The new file is, "Original studio model test shot print.jpg". Here's a small version to fit this page, but you can have the large version by clicking the link below.



EDIT: The link below has been fixed and the files updated.

Project Files 001

So I packed the main resource images into an archive file and you can have all I've got till now.

I have renamed this file and re-uploaded it, to avoid confusion later on when I add more files to this collection.Those of you who already downloaded this, rename your file Project Files_001.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 2/14/2011 - 4:11 AM

This morning I had a power failure, the second one since discovering that my UPS is overdue for replacement. Consequently, when my computer shut down, I lost the changes I'd just spent many hours working out on my test model. Fortunately, I had the dimensions written down, and was able to reconstruct my work in no time at all. I'm fortunate that I live in an area where all electrical lines are underground, and very well protected by the power company. They got tired of buying new computers for their customers, and fixed their faulty surge protection. So, this time, I didn't get a new computer out of them.

However, when I turned things back on, I had a very pleasant surprise. I had my first email from Simon Atkinson, who notified me that a new illustration had been added to his site. With the tunnel vision, typical of the absent-minded-professor, I jumped to the conclusion the illustration was of Orion III, and my mood sky-rocketed. I failed to read the next sentence, which said the illustration was of the Space Shuttle. "It's a detailed Space Shuttle cutaway commissioned a few months ago by Friend and colleague, Author Piers Bizony ." (emphasis mine) So, I rushed over to the site:

Simon's site

I love the music over there, but don't like the fact it cut's off when you look at a close-up of an image. Remind me to make the music play anywhere you go on my site when I create one LOL. The site is beautiful, and loaded with goodies on this favored subject, plus a lot of other goodies on Simon's arts, and history.

So, by the time I got back to my email, there was another from Simon, correcting my misunderstanding, and thanking me for the link to this WIP Journal. Maybe, if we're lucky, he'll register here and post some goodies that have escaped our searches. Anything on Orion, Please. I'll worry about Discovery when I finish this part of the project. So, my hopes jumped up and down, but stayed pretty high just from hearing from the man who got most of us modelers started with plans. Thanks Simon. Without that start, I'd have to add months of illustrations of my own growing collection, rather than just add changes that have since become available.

I'll have to break this into two posts....

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 11/20/2010 - 12:57 AM

to continue:

Speaking of my own collection, here's another tool I've created for my Test Model. I call it that, for it's my working model until I get my drawings completed. It is based on BJ West's model, which was based on Simon's drawings. While it is unsuitable for accurate measurements, it is suitable for zeroing in on those measurements, as a tool to help me analyze some of these photos.

For instance, using modo, and some information I have on the original model, I was able to create a bounding box around my test model, that is, the proportional equivalent of the original model. My data holds that the original was a scale model for an actual ship that would have been 175 feet long, and 85 feet wide at the wingtips. Now, I don't know how Simon came to the conclusions for his drawings, as to size or scale, but if I superimpose a grid scaled to 175 feet for length, the width of the wingspan in his drawing comes out as 88-89 feet, and this was followed pretty closely by BJW. I don't know if he had the best evidence for his wing calculations, or the length, but using the length as the standard, I will accept as a working hypothesis that his height is close to correct, which is 19.4 feet. This figure is only moderately reliable, due to several factors. Simon drew the bottom of the wings on the same level as the bottom of the ship, and that is how BJW modeled it. I will have to scale the size of the wings down, width-wise, and height-wise, to fit the rest of those features and make the modeling changes at the bottom curvature of the ship. As you can see, it's a hairy problem, but one I believe I can unravel.

By wrapping a semi transparent bounding box around my test model, that is divided up into 1 foot squares, and level with the highest point on Orion's Engine Bell Housing, and the length of the fuselage without the probes, I can compare individual photos of the original model, as to the angle of attack of the ship, and the type of lens used to take the photo, and distance from the model (part of the data I have and am gathering), ie., the focal length. Then I can do a test render by first orienting my camera in modo to a close approximation of the photo, and compare them. Each adjustment will get me closer to two images that have an identical silhouette. Differences that are due to lens distortion can be compensated for. Then with a render of the bounding box, I can draw an accurate perspective drawing with a horizon and vanishing points, and thus plot the location of all the visible features, which I can save to yet another drawing, as I do each image, I will add this data to that final data image. Comparing the data from all of the photos will give me a pretty decent idea of where everything goes, their proportions and distances.

With that data, I will be able to create orthographic drawings of a great degree of accuracy. Sort of a graphics version of reverse engineering.

Here's my first render of the test model, with bounding box. You may be able to notice the wingtips protruding from the sides of the box. I'll get around to fixing that in it's own time.



I'd appreciate any crits on my concepts for a solution to this problem, or tips on enhancing any of them, or especially, any better ideas, tools, features of modo that would help make this easier, or even about any scripts you may know about that help making drawings of this Cad type operation.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 11/23/2010 - 2:07 AM

This technique is a doubled edged sword. In short order, it will show me if there is a glitch between the figure given on an early blueprint as to the overall proportions and size of the "real" spacecraft. If, during the modeling process, the modelers changed those original relationships, it will be obvious in the analysis, and correctable. It comes at the problem from as many directions as there are reference photos. They will all be integrated at the end, and therefore cancel out each others distortions.

If it turns out that the wings are fine at this length, I'll know it. If not, I can always scale them. Actually, by then, I'll be making my own finished model from the results of all my hard work.


Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 11/23/2010 - 2:10 AM

Quote from LeonArtO3D :
Has anyone noticed this intersection? I'd love to hear the story behind this oddity.




Well, to me it isn't all that odd, IF,
that is how things are spose to be on the real deal?

If so, then just pull the vertexes from that section where
it/they meet up to make the pointed part of that tail and then
simply pull it under the little cone shaped thingy and that way
you won't have to go through a ton load of heck to make it look
right without screwing up either part.
I mean, if this is all made from a cage and not basic polys?
I.E. like a subD.

..............md :)
Before creating the Boxview (bounding box) this attempt was not too bad at getting one vanishing point, but notice how vague the evidence for another vp.

Images removed by Leon. See page 5 for details.

The full image size of this reduced image was 9.167" X 25". Sometimes, you have to make a pretty large image to find the vanishing point.

Images removed by Leon. See page 5 for details.
I approximated the 'angle of attack' and did this render.



Next, I need to orient the sun to approximate the lighting angles in the photo.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 2/1/2011 - 1:59 AM

Quote from mdunakin :

Well, to me it isn't all that odd, IF,
that is how things are spose to be on the real deal?

If so, then just pull the vertexes from that section where
it/they meet up to make the pointed part of that tail and then
simply pull it under the little cone shaped thingy and that way
you won't have to go through a ton load of heck to make it look
right without screwing up either part.
I mean, if this is all made from a cage and not basic polys?
I.E. like a subD.

..............md :)


md.... You're right about the modeling technique, not being odd or unusually complicated in modo. What is odd, is the fact that it exist at all, EDIT:(so odd that neither Simon Atkinson nor BJ West thought it deliberate enough to draw or model that way. Whether they didn't notice the anomaly, or just thought it an optical illusion, they acted on the right principle, and it stands to reason too.) This statement, between (...), is not true. Simon did draw the anomaly as shown in the photograph, at least he did so in the two top views. In the side view, the two parts are separated slightly, which is where I got the idea he might have missed this. BJ West, made his model with them separated, as they would be in reality, and as originally designed. The oddity, was done by the model makers at the studio, during production.

In the context of the principles of design, form follows function. This ship was conceived by 'rocket scientists', not some hair brain, who adds features because they are 'purdy', like the fancy vertical stabilizers on a '57 Chevy, nor the expediency of a model maker, who rather than remodel the entire tail section just glued the parts back together and sanded off the difference. The men who conceived this design would not merge these two separate functions and destroy their functionality. In fact, they did not. In the first drawings out of the studio, made from the design notes, the housing of the engine cowling and the forward facing attitude jets, are separate and unique designs.

The existence of this anomaly proves it was done, probably without Kubrick noticing it, by someone who neither knew, nor cared anything for principles. Someone willing to attempt to fake reality, for ulterior reasons. In spite of Kubrick's iron grip on making the movie conform to science, he couldn't defeat all the other kind of creators who flock to Hollywood. That's why he destroyed all the models after shooting.

My job is to duplicate, as nearly as possible to the original, used in the movie, this model, even this flaw; not, to get creative with it. I may blow it, but it won't be done by unplugging my mind, nor through lack of integrity. I want to be proud of my efforts when I'm done, and to feel that way, I must be at least as true as Kubrick.

Maybe, my imaginary example of a model maker gluing parts back together is what happened. I can see that happening. Maybe they extended one of the forward compartments, say to accommodate design changes in the set of the passenger compartment, but was still supposed to keep the overall length the same. So, maybe they cut out a slice between the cowling and the attitude jets and glued them back together. It wouldn't matter to the 'other kind' that the ship couldn't maneuver in space, the passenger compartment is 'purdy'. That's because he isn't really a designer, he's a decorator. Maybe someone in the know can clear up the big mystery.

EDIT February 14, 2011: BIG MISTAKE ON MY PART:

This is not a mistake on the part of the studio modelers of Orion, and they are not Attitude Jets. Adam K. Johnson was gracious enough to point out that these are Explosive Bolts, used to separate the launch section from the main fuselage, as illustrated in the book 2001: filming the Future. He was also gracious enough to include a re-render of the contours of the hull configuration of these bowls and recesses. Thank you, Adam.
I will not be going through this thread and editing out every reference to this mistake on my part, so if in reading those references, don't think I've changed my mind again. LOL.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 2/14/2011 - 2:24 AM

The more I look at this problem, the more I think I have to remodel those wings and the bottom of the ship, now, rather than later. I can always go back to the current version of the test model.

I've started that process, but to do it justice, even as a preliminary test, will require a long chain of other calculations, not something there is any value to be gained in approximating, no matter how impatient I am becoming.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 11/22/2010 - 1:27 PM

On the other hand, the "Probes" can be approximated pretty well. These, by the way, have something to do with controlling the exhaust. They are not antennas, as has been speculated. There is an antenna, but it is rather conventional in design and must be raised through a door in the top of the fuselage.

The probes, are not clear enough in any of my images to do it real justice, but as near as I can tell, I've modeled it as best as I can measure it. Their diameter, at the end is approximately half what it is at the fuselage, and approximately separated from each other, by that same measure, along their length. They are not parallel, but their aim converges about half their length beyond their tips. The expanded rings are sized and spaced approximately as shown below. Note: In both images below, the probes are subd'd, and I had not yet completed my modeling. As a result, their diameters shrink in these views, to make their separation more than their diameters. I just noticed what I did there, and am fixing it. I'm also going to round the tips a bit to more closely resemble the photos.









After I get done with the serious modeling, maybe I'll add some training wheels to these, like they use on dragsters, to keep them from flipping over at takeoff. LOL.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 11/23/2010 - 4:09 AM

I had hopes of doing all of this in modo, Photoshop and Illustrator, but drawing blueprints, particularly, from photos with all manner of perspective views, and the job of translating them to orthographic views, may be beyond modo. I say 'maybe', because I simply do not yet have the experience to use modo as a CAD type application, nor do I know if it's even possible.

So, I have elected to do the blueprints in AutoCAD, then come back here to model, texture and animate it in modo. Cross referencing all these angles, vanishing points, horizon lines, focal lengths, and integrating them, will require more than Photoshop and Illustrator can handle, at least the older versions I own. They have their uses in this monster of a project, for sure, and are part of my pipeline. For the first time, I'm adding AutoCAD to the pipeline. This will let me send the files to anyone who wants them, and they can open them in AutoCAD, if they have it, or simply take the file to any professional printer and have them made into actual blueprints. They can be scaled automatically to whatever size the modeler wants to make. Edit: When I take my drawings in to be plotted, I can have digital versions made, ie., scan the actual blueprints into however many files are necessary. That will save anyone the price of having them plotted for themselves.

My work has been slowed, as my relatively new printer bit the dust, and the new one won't arrive till Monday. Hopefully, I will be printing the backlog of images the first of December. I'll have to remove some of the art on my walls, to accommodate all this stuff. I need a bigger studio!


A little tongue-in-cheek humor for your edification and benefit.
I was thinking about the 2 extra attitude jets, and combined cowling/attitude jet's bell housing, and remembered the humorous 'Aircraft of the World' drawings in Playboy January 1971, by Bruce McCall, years ago. Image shown below. There was a bent fuselage aircraft out of Russia, that...well, read it yourself.



Maybe, after completing Orion, I'll make an alternate Orion III, built as designed by the "Rocket Scientists".

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 11/30/2010 - 5:16 PM

Two days late, but my new printer is up and running again, cranking out images of Orion, poster sized. So I'm off to the races with this project. I was right, I do need a bigger studio.
One more small facet of the project, came from the thought of modeling the pilots of Orion for any animations. Since they are shot from behind, I went looking for their names and face shots. At first, I could not even find a listing for Orion pilots, in the crew lists, though there was one for the Aries pilot, who comes in to chat with Dr. Floyd. After many dead ends, i got some info, which was also very strange:

"Robin Dawson-Whisker and Hugh Bourne were the pilots for the Orion. They were stunt-doubles in the trade and not full actors...Also, the images through the windows (of which none were seen in the finished movies) had other stunt doubles that were different. Whisker and Bourne were in the cockpit scene in the movie."

From there I did searches for both. Hugh Bourne turned up zero results! Robin Dawson-Whisker did appear in some of the crew lists, but on ....70mm newsletter, for instance, he's listed under Other Stand Ins. So far, not a single photo of either, except those in the movie. I'd say, that qualifies as weird!
Heya, Leon!

That's quite the project you got goin' on here! You've done a great job researching her, and that's first phase key in recreating an as-close-to-accurate facsimile of an existing model.

Modeling is looking pretty good, eh, but I was looking at some of your earlier texturing attempts and I will share this with you; “Less is more” when it comes to recreating photo-realism in regard to aircraft texturing, ESP. when it comes to panels lines. Your thickness and bump mapping is way over-done, a common perceptive mistake when one is starting out. Always look at real-world aircraft for reference and strive to match that.

BTW, thanks for the kind words about my work in your opening. As a matter of fact, I am gearing up on my own 2001 vehicle project; Orion, space station, Aries, Moonbus, Discovery, Pod, Monolith (that will be the toughest I imagine, and check this out, BTW; mine just arrived, thought you might be interested in one, too).

Anywho, if you have any good hi-rez ref images esp. of those orthos plans, feel free to send them my way if so inclined. You have me email, but if lost; deg@deg3D.biz

If I come across anything during my own ref scout phase, I will be happy to send them your way as well. You seem to have done a very comprehensive job thus far on the Orion ref scout though.

It's full of stars!

deg

http://deg3D.biz

I model, therefore I modo.

Message edited by deg3D on 12/14/2010 - 7:33 PM

Quote from deg3D :
Heya, Leon!

That's quite the project you got goin' on here! You've done a great job researching her, and that's first phase key in recreating an as-close-to-accurate facsimile of an existing model.

Modeling is looking pretty good, eh, but I was looking at some of your earlier texturing attempts and I will share this with you; “Less is more” when it comes to recreating photo-realism in regard to aircraft texturing, ESP. when it comes to panels lines. Your thickness and bump mapping is way over-done, a common perceptive mistake when one is starting out. Always look at real-world aircraft for reference and strive to match that.

BTW, thanks for the kind words about my work in your opening. As a matter of fact, I am gearing up on my own 2001 vehicle project; Orion, space station, Aries, Moonbus, Discovery, Pod, Monolith (that will be the toughest I imagine, and check this out, BTW; mine just arrived, thought you might be interested in one, too).

Anywho, if you have any good hi-rez ref images esp. of those orthos plans, feel free to send them my way if so inclined. You have me email, but if lost; deg@deg3D.biz

If I come across anything during my own ref scout phase, I will be happy to send them your way as well. You seem to have done a very comprehensive job thus far on the Orion ref scout though.

It's full of stars!

deg

http://deg3D.biz

I model, therefore I modo.


Hey Deg!

Good to hear from you. Especially that you are launching your own Odyssey Project! And thanks for the tip on the monolith action figure. The ad copy is pretty funny.

I did build one of those for a friend, out of 3/4 ply, 1' X 4' X 9'. No handles, and a real bitch to move around. I spray painted it with piano black, so it had a good soft luster to it. I think his kids inherited it when he passed, but they'd need a pretty high ceiling, to do it justice. I'd forgotten it till after starting this project. EDIT: I'll probably get this action figure, as there is no room in my studio for a full sized monolith. I'll have to keep it a long way from my computer to avoid electro-magnetic anomalies.

As far as textures go, I think you got confused by the copy on page one of this opus. The only model I've posted here of orion that has textures, is BJ Wests model. I did some tests with that and also started rebuilding it to my own specs, but i did not apply any textures to it. I referred to it as my test model, in a few posts, however, I had to abandon that one entirely. What I didn't realize at first, was that his geometry was based on a false assumption, that there were two extra thrusters (the ring of half cups just ahead of the big engine bell housing on the tail, with the hollowed side facing forward. See the image called INTERSECT, where one of these, the center one, is joined to the bell housing). If that isn't confusing enough, once you find and identify them, find an image with textures and count them, then count them on one of the photos of the original model. BJ explained that he based his model on Simon Atkinson's drawings, which has two extra thrusters, so he added extra geometry for them to the hull. I played with it for awhile, testing some of the design changes I had noticed in new imagery. However, I had to drop that when I saw I had to rebuild the whole thing from scratch, just as BJ said he would if doing it today.

Scratch building has to start with drawings, either existing drawings, or in a case like this, those drawing have to be produced. That takes a lot of time, if you want to be accurate. Most of the image gathering is done, until The 2001 Bible comes out, this coming year. People are still sending me goodies and each one makes my job that much easier. To be sure, I'll send you what I have, that I'm legally allowed to send. At some point, it will be OK to send them all, so you'll get it all eventually.

Essentially, the process I'm doing now is cross referencing all these images. It's working. Little by little she is taking shape, one area of the design at a time. Endless experiments, most of which end up in the trash bin, but a few go to the finished data bank. So posting has slowed down during this phase. It'll pick up again once I get the overall dimensions locked down. I expect, the first real deal things I post will be the drawings with actual dimensions for everything. These I'll give to the world of modelers, free of charge.

I may create an interim set of drawings that will not be the final complete set with all the bells and whistles. It depends on how long it takes to get them done as

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 12/15/2010 - 5:22 PM

To be fair to Simon Atkinson, he did one Hell of a job with very little information. I recently did a comparison of his drawing and one of the early blueprints, in Photoshop. The profile is almost identical.

Simon's art:


A combination overlay:


The somewhat skewed sketchy blueprint:


There's very little he missed and they were rushing the Hell out of him. Bravo Simon.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 2/14/2011 - 3:44 AM

Killer drawings, wow!
Simply love this ship, as simple as that, it's beautiful!
Can't wait to see you add more to your own model?

...................md :)
Thanks MD

A few clarification notes here. Above, you see an early blueprint, I'll call it a sketch blueprint because it was so early, and because it was not meant to be a 'measure by this drawing'. The blueprint one can measure things by is still on the way to me, but it too is an early plan, and it will have been followed by numerous little changes. In the case of the drawing shown above, this has also been flipped horizontally, to match with Atkinson's drawing. Notice that the hatch is not shown in the blueprint, because the port side of the ship does not have a personnel hatch. The print is a flipped view of the port side.

Here is a view of the working drawing those above comes from, but shown here as the psd file looks in Photoshop. The blue lines you see are guidelines which do not reproduce when changed to jpg. This version is from some time back with fewer blue lines than now exist, as they practically cover the image. Mind you, every feature on the ship has several blue lines marking it's position, and these are mathematically plotable. Because this drawing will hold every view of Orion, it is quite large. If drawn out on tracing paper, the drawing area alone would be 12 feet 6 inches squared. Ever seen a 14' X 14' drawing board?




Because I model full scale in modo, my model would be 175 feet long, if there are no changes to the evolution of it's design, which we know there were, so it will almost certainly be bigger. The scale of these drawings is 1/2" = 1'. The actual scale I use for "my official" blueprints will be different in both directions, meaning, the general views will fit on 36'X 48" blueprint paper and scaled accordingly. the detail pages will more closely scale to actual size. They will include cross-sections of the entire ship at every significant feature, including the interior; cross-sections and details of the features themselves. The reference sheets will include scaling information for modelers who will want to make physical models at various scales/sizes. I will also detail the calculations I use to arrive at any speculated measurements when data is lacking on actual measurements. (Ian Walsh taught me the importance of including this feature) I don't want to leave future modelers scratching their heads wondering, "How the Hell did he figure this thingamagig is 26" wide and at this angle?"

I may add to this copy later, but if so I'll add an EDIT: caption.
Thanks, Leon! :)

A note/update on my project: my 2001 project just got put on hold, as I got a call yesterday, and have been hired on to a new major science-fiction TV series, so if all works out (and I believe it will), next month I will be finally heading to LA to work at a major studio, so all personal build projects will take a back-seat for to that for, who knows how long?

I'm bringing modo to the table though, as the go-to modo guy on the production.

deg

http://deg3D.biz

I model, therefore I modo.
Quote from deg3D :
Thanks, Leon! :)

A note/update on my project: my 2001 project just got put on hold, as I got a call yesterday, and have been hired on to a new major science-fiction TV series, so if all works out (and I believe it will), next month I will be finally heading to LA to work at a major studio, so all personal build projects will take a back-seat for to that for, who knows how long?

I'm bringing modo to the table though, as the go-to modo guy on the production.

deg

http://deg3D.biz

I model, therefore I modo.


Congratulations on the new job. Give my regards to San Fernando Valley and The Sherwood Lounge, a hangout for Studio techs with pool skills. Hope you got 501 today. Looks like I have to get a new computer before I can install 501, as they've upped the ante on system requirements. Edit: No they are not, at least, not to that drastic a degree. Still, I have to buy a new one very soon.

Message edited by LeonArtO3D on 12/29/2010 - 7:53 AM

Congrats and good luck on the new job. The best outcome for personal projects is often that you don't have time to finish them due to professional responsibilities :D

G.
Thanks, guys!

I will take joy in following your excellent progress for the time being, Leon. :)

Got my 501, yeah, and I see it will still go OK on me Mac. But I just bought a new PC this week, now a hot-rod work-station, just a new decent PC to have. I ordered it with Pentium processors over the new chips as I didn't think I'd need them.

Like I said, it's not meant to be a work-station per se, but I *guess* I can only load 401 on it if I wanted the modo on it for any reason...

I like to shoot a game now-and-again (used to a lot), so I will look for it, my friend. :)

deg

http://deg3D.biz

I model, therefore I modo.

Hi Leon,

yes you are right - seems to be a bigger project :)
I've uploaded the requested file.

Chris

slow down – speed kills
www.stillalivedesign.de

Thanks Chris for the files.

deg- To eliminate any slop shooting, we used to put the 8 ball up on a fresh piece of chalk after the break. Anyone who knocked the 8 ball off the chalk accidentally lost the game. Then when you are actually shooting the 8 ball, since the que ball is lower than the elevation of the 8, you must also calculate its trajectory, and you can jump over other balls to make your shot. Oh yes, the name of the game is "8 ball, chalk pool, last pocket, scratches don't count". That means where ever you sink the last ball before the 8 is where you have to sink the 8. This is the only game of 8 ball that you are allowed to scratch on the 8. If the 8 ball goes off the table, you loose. You still win if the 8 hits the table and rolls into the pocket, but if your trajectory is dead on the pocket without hitting the sides, you are considered a superior human being, and back then, the house bought your next round! LOL. Hope it's still there. Oh, the war stories I could tell! I was a stage hand for the TV industry, and live concerts, and theater, back then.

Ah, the good old days.
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