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Topic - modo sculpting vs zbrush

I thought that eventually zbrush would come to Mac but I fear that even if it does I wouldn't trust a company that promises to make a Mac version of 3.0 while there is already a 3.1 for Win. So - there isn't any sculpting options really out there and the best one I think is actually in modo. So - can someone tell me if modo sculpt could replace zbrush? Is it something really so not comparable to each other or maybe the growth and development of modo gives the hope that some day modo will also be a supreme sculpt app?
There's already been a lot of threads on this topic. But in short modo does not compare, at all, to sculpting in Zbrush 3.1.

Zbrush has a ton more tools and advanced features as well as the ability to handle much denser meshes fluidly.

For simple to mid res stuff, modo is fine though, in my opinion. As long as you have some decent hardware.

I use modo sculpting mainly to block in large shapes, for which the mesh sculpting in modo is fine. But if I need any kind of detail, it's off to Zbrush.

What the future holds for modo sculpting would be pure guesswork at the moment. But I don't think it's going to touch Zbrush's toolset in a long time... or that of the upcoming Mudbox 2.0 for that matter.
Currently I agree there's no comparison, ZB is streets ahead.

But in the future? Well there's a limit to how many polys you need to push around on a single mesh and ZB is probably already close to it. From now on ZB can only really lose ground to other less capable packages.

If Modo could increase it's poly handling capability to XSI type levels, improve it's handling of multiple large textures, improve it's symmetry features and reliability combined with the continued speed increase of hardware maybe it could compete with ZB in the future?

It's a long road though and I'm banking on either improved Mac support from Pixologic or a Mac version of Mudbox.

Both are perhaps a little optimistic! :D

BTW 3dCoat is supposed to be a great little app and is coming to Mac soon (month or two?)

http://www.3d-coat.com/

Message edited by BazC on 7/28/2008 - 5:30 PM

I'm hoping Autodesk see's the oppurtunity Pixologic has left with he huge delay in bringing zbrush 3 to OSX. I've been asking about mudbox on osx since the beta days of version 1 but they really didn't have the resources. Now they do.. I don't think autodesk has ever ported anything to Mac.. there was 1 verson of Autocad R12.. but i'm hoping they see dollar signs in sculpting in the mac sector and port.

________________________________________
http://www.kenfinlayson-art.com

http://www.kenfinlayson-art.com/misguidedTutorials.html

Dave Cardwell posted on the Mudbox forums recently that they still control development of Mudbox, Autodesk aren't dictating policy at all so there's still a chance they will port to OSX.
I'll echo what's been said already.

In the future, as has been said, who knows? Especially with Pixologic being so mysterious with the whole Mac thing. Zbrush is currently the industry standard, but who knows. No news isn't good news anymore.

I will say that I absolutely love the fact that modo lets you sculpt on an actual mesh. You're not limited to sculpting on a vector displacement map. This has been very helpful to me in blocking out base meshes and even refining them. Even for heavy organic stuff, modo's sculpt tools are awesome on a mesh!

I think the hiccups start happening when you sculpt on a vector map. Not everyone is having the same experience there. But if you can get a workflow that works for you, sculpting in modo can be extremely rewarding!

I personally decided to go with Zbrush 3.1 and run it via Windows XP on my Intel Mac because it's the standard in sculpting and I want to be on the same page as everyone else. Mudbox caught my eye though...
Great thing about Modo is WYSIWYG. To get Mudbox and Zbrush into Max/Lightwave/Whatever you have to bake out a map which invariably will look a little different. Not so in Modo, since you are painting vector maps interactively. For medium resolution meshes Modo is awesome.

With the addition of 64bit and some optimizations, Modo could easily become my sculpting/painting app of choice.
Thanks for all reply guys! I really would like to see mudbox on Mac. I'd be really happy if actually a third player would appear here.
Quote from Sandking :
I thought that eventually zbrush would come to Mac but I fear that even if it does I wouldn't trust a company that promises to make a Mac version of 3.0 while there is already a 3.1 for Win.


Not true. 3.1 was a bug fix release that need to get out of the way so coding the mac version would be streamlined with no major changes needing to made later. When Zbrush does come to Mac it will be at least version 3.1. Mac users will be up to date on release if that's your concern.

I just want them to get the mac version out the way because it was also said that the Mac version would release before 3.2 would get priority. So yea, I kinda would like that update. :P

Lastly, after toying with Modo's sculpting tools It's was dreadfully obvious that Zbrush is far out ahead of Modo. I loaded up a 1.7 million face mesh and even with a pretty small brush Modo would just die. Using the normal modeling tool set for edits wasn't a problem though. Basically, I came away from modo thinking I would never use it's sculpting tools for anything other than basic forms on small to medium sized meshes. Zbrush spoiled me :P
 
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Zbrush 3 IS coming to the Mac.

Also, I agree with the above that they were trying to get the bugs out FIRST before porting it to the Mac - hence the 3.1 Windows version.

However, Sandking, if you are on an Intel mac, you can always run Zbrush on Windows using either bootcamp or through VM ware Fusion (I recommend Fusion over parallels as it offers 64bit Windows support and up to 4 cores of CPU support).

I am using both OSX and Windows on my Mac Pro for 3D and it works fine. I have not purchased Zbrush 3 yet. although I think I may end up getting the Windows version since I am already doing most of my non Modo 3D work on Windows anyway (in XSI and LW 64 etc...). Its a shame that the Mac isn't better supported. There isn't even a 64bit version of Maya for the Mac yet.

Also, if you haven't purchased Modo yet, I highly recommend you do get it even if you decide to get Zbrush for sculpting, as Modo offers many other fantastic features that Zbrush doesn't have, and the sculpting tools in modo is a really fantastic way to model with SubDs! If you haven't used Modo before, I suggest you at least try it out first. Zbrush or Modo is not an either or proposition - I suggest you get both as they work really well together.

Message edited by Marinello on 7/29/2008 - 1:05 AM

3.1 had features added.. otherwise it would of been 3.01. They changed the GUI/icons.. specifically brushes.. added Posed symmetry.. and fixed bugs. But ya by the time ZB3 hits osx it sounds from what Pixo has hinted at, and time passed would indicate that it is going to be version 3.2-3.5

________________________________________
http://www.kenfinlayson-art.com

http://www.kenfinlayson-art.com/misguidedTutorials.html

Actually, read somewhere in the ZB forums that when Mac version will be out, it will not be only 3.1 version but something... more. :D
3.5 maybe?

Its also logical , since alot of time passed yet.

BTW hope this can be true, i don't want to make anyone dream.

But hope that the day for mac version isn't so far.
Quote from Nemoid :
Actually, read somewhere in the ZB forums that when Mac version will be out, it will not be only 3.1 version but something... more. :D
3.5 maybe?

Its also logical , since alot of time passed yet.

BTW hope this can be true, i don't want to make anyone dream.

But hope that the day for mac version isn't so far.


Yes Aurick has hinted that there will be new features and "novelties" and "something to surprise us" in the Mac version (and presumably a new Win version too) My guess is ZB will be 64bit on both platforms and may be adding some new features. Novelties sounds a bit trivial so I don't know what he's getting at there!

Certainly the Mac release should be close but at the beginning of February Aurick said they were on target for a release at the end of February and it's been coming soon ever since!

It seems that they have something new to show at Siggraph since their booth is a biggun and right in amongst the most prestigious stands but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Siggraph comes and goes with no mention of the Mac version. People are only assuming there will be news/Mac release. Pixologic have said nothing.

I really, really hope I'm wrong though! :(
i'm on a PC so mac port isn't a prob for me.

What i'd like to see actually in ZB is

real layered painting capabilities, and if possible resolution independant.

Plus, better retopology tools and rigging as it was previewed years ago.

transpose is cool, but i'd like to have the possibility to like "rig" model and pose it, and mantain this rig inside of the model too , for futher editing and reposing.
more efficient workflow, even if the current one, where you can store layers isn't that bad.

"Rigging" is possible now to a certain degree, but workflow is convoluted and not 100% efficient system.

another thing i'd like is to be able to join zspheres yet ready models.
e.g. if i have a premade zsphere hand i'd like to be able to join it to arm of another zsphere tool. it would be a real timesaver in certain occasions.


finally' i'd like VERY much they could keep animation into serious considetatio (here its just me dreaming , i think it will never happen)

Message edited by Nemoid on 7/29/2008 - 11:11 AM

i like Zsphere at zbrush,is a powerful tool ,modo have a tool similar wit Zsphere,Sketch tool ,but Zsphere still can change and pose the object after u sculpt,modo still cannot do that


i hope modo have this feature :P
At the moment i look at Modo's sculpting as a companion for polymodeling which is really the strong base of Modo. I don't think anyone will buy Modo only for its sculpting capabilities but because these help a lot before/during/after the usual modeling process.
The last two tuts made by Andy focus on the role of sculpting in Modo and where, for now, it could be time-saver while enjoing its ease of use, especially in mesh sculpting since on the vector map side it's still difficult to handle in certain situations. But time will reveal the plans, who knows ?

cheers
I've started using Zbrush more seriously recently, I thought you might be intersted to hear that with my current model, using the HD geometry feature I have it subdivided to 22 million polygons! Without HD I got to around 10million. That's using just 2 gigs of RAM, imagine what a 64bit version would be capable of!

Modo has quite a way to go to compete with that!
I would say that you should definately pick up a copy of Modo... it rocks and most of us at my studio have converted. Also though.... I am using Zbrush more and more lately and the biggest compliment I can give it (and modo to a certain extent) is that they have helped to raise the bar here for what we do. They work very well together and as Modo expands and improves, and as Zbrush matures and they fill some holes we will all be sitting on two of the most progressive apps in the industry.

As far as the mac situation goes.... someone posted an email recieved from pixologic support in the cg talk forums... it read that the mac version is coming and we will here more soon blah blah blah etc. I would guess though that we will certainly here more at siggraph. I know they are planning a user event and what ever new product they show or even just 3.2 I would say is probably the first mac version we will see. It makes sense that they would need to develop the new mac version to the current PC one .... and that is probably 3.2. Also should be noted that Pixologic really really doesn't release anything until it's done! They skipped the announced 2.5 don't forget....AND have not charged for an upgrade yet... quite the crazy philosophy. Not that I mind but I would certainly be ready to pay for the massive massive upgrade that was 2 to 3.

Also I run it in Bootcamp and it works very well. I have also heard very good things about VMware's Fusion. I would wait for siggraph and see what happens. Until then learn Modo!
The two programs do work very well with each other.
ZBrush for OS X is in late beta at this point, so it's really just a matter of time, probably it will be announced at Siggraph. The only bad thing is that it probably will only be available on Intel, but that will give me more motivation to upgrade. I doubt there will be a Mac version of MudBox. I mean they've said that the codebase was optimal for platform porting from the beginning, but it's been well over a year with no ZBrush on OS X. I think if you have a monstrosity of a video card and a lot of RAM you could probably use modo to replace 90% of the kind of stuff you would do in ZBrush provided you know how to build with good topology. I think Silo's sculpting is probably on par with modo's at this point.
Quote from Butch007 :
ZBrush for OS X is in late beta at this point


I honestly hope so, but I have a niggling feeling it's not the case at all...
Quote from buckie :


I honestly hope so, but I have a niggling feeling it's not the case at all...


Me too :( I think it was at the beginning of the year and they were really close to releasing in February then for some reason (maybe they got wind of Mudbox 2009?) they decided to add features. My guess is they will be previewing something big at Siggraph, maybe enhanced performance, maybe new features, probably 64bit version. I'm not banking on the OSX version any time soon though :(

I really, really hope I'm wrong, I'm using ZB3 under Windows and I LOVE it!