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Topic - Modo – What Lightwave Should Have Become

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I'm sure I am not the first to recognize this, but now that I have used modo for a bit, I am having a hard time jumping back into Lightwave. Modo is what Lightwave should have become and it is apparent that NewTek has some serious catching up to do. It seems their updates sport new features but they have stopped paying attention to what I think made LW great to begin with - the interface and workflow. Modo seems to have nailed it. It is as fast (if not faster) than LW in a workflow sense. I remember all the noise on the forums and such when Luxology started. I remember all the "traitor" posts about the Lux guys jumping ship. Now I realize it was for the best, Modo plain rocks and is forward looking. Lightwave seems to be getting stale. I really hope they get their act together, but until then, I can always look to Modo.
Did you turn the light off as you left?
Quote from Singularity :
Did you turn the light off as you left?


HaHa - I have been using LW since before it was unbundled from the Toaster. Careerware is what I called it. I am seriously looking at other solutions now. Modo is it for modeling - I'm looking at Maya for animation and effects.
Yes, I too had made a career out of using LightWave, but I just LOVE modo now. Though LightWave is far too robust to just drop, I find myself going back here and there to do things modo just cant do yet, but each time I do go back, it gets harder and harder. If they could make it so I didn't have to click the dang 'interface area' to deselect, I would be so much more happy. But things like pointfit, random cloner, rope editor, grass, tree and leaves generator, they're all too useful, and there's just nothing even close in modo.... yet I suppose. :-D

James Darknell - Training and Documentation Manager
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk

It was just too good to resist.
A bit like modo itself.
But of course you're right modo isn't a LW replacement yet. Other packages like Maya etc are the ones supplanting LW, even amongst the lifers.

Message edited by Singularity on 6/21/2007 - 9:53 PM

I can not tell you how painful the "traitor" comments were to many of us. We made a HUGE leap of faith to start Luxology. It was clear to us that a complete re-write was necessary to REALLY satisfy the requests of artists worldwide in regard to workflow AND technology. We really did start all of this for that very reason. So when people actually got angry with us for taking a giant risk in an effort to satisfy their requests it was really a hard pill to swallow. Thankfully we knew it was the right thing to do then and we have been proven correct. Your note is appreciated.

The traitor comments are an interesting commentary on society. Some people follow the Lakers and some people follow Shaq.

BP
People generally hate change.
Strange, as it's fundamental to the creative process.
Those reactions would've been hurtful indeed.
Maybe some people thought about the dev team leaving Lightwave as leaving the sinking ship or as abandoning your own child.
But sometimes the management doesn't make the right decisions.

It is sad that some people treat a software product like a religion...
I mean, come on it is a TOOL. Imagine if people would talk the same about a pair of pliers or some dough kneading machine...

Message edited by misha3d on 6/21/2007 - 11:46 PM

Some definitely go overboard but an emotional response to something as liberating as the creative process can be isn't surprising. When a 3D app can be a source of joy or frustration strong feelings result whether it's logical or not.
I agree with your thought they're just tools but at another level I love my bonsai tools and my 3D apps for the creation they allow. It's directly proportional to how 'good' they are too.
I think sometimes we forget how mind blowing LW was back in the day. For a lot of folks it was a journey of discovery as much as a tool.
I used to be a Lightwave user. In some point I've realized that Newtek was too slow in catching up with other application and the interface did not improve over the time. I worked with many 3D appz such as Animation Master, 3D Max, Cinema 4D, Maya and zBrush, and by now I know what is important for me in a 3d application. Modo is for sure on the right way but it must still go a long way in order to be a big competitor for 3d appz like 3DS MAx, Maya, XSI and Cinema 4D. I believe I bet on the right horse with Modo. ;-)


Cheers
Please permit me to rain on the parade a little here. I do have positive thoughts and hopes for Modo but im just not over the hump yet.

I still use LW (7.5 to boot) on a daily basis for modeling and dont feel Im missing much other than a much better implementation of edge and point bevel, and edge split. It was really cool to play around with sub-d's in modo because of the n-gon support. It was fun laying out porsche like roadsters in ngons and then using edge split to flesh out the details. I was able to make a believable sub-d car in like 15 minutes.

I like the ideas behind the UI in modo but, call me a dinosaur, I still model in quad view. The UI takes up too much space in quad view in modo imho.

I hope that work on solidsketch continues. I hoped that either solidsketch or the tube tool evolves to work with intersecting curves. It would be so awesome and fast to layout mechs, characters, aircraft and animals with a skeleton of curves that can then be given thickness with the tube tool or solidsketch. I would also like to be able to slice the control curve or some other way of inserting more control points into a tube or solidsketch object.

Roadkill is a freeware and my preferred UV unwrapper. The navigation is workable if a bit awkward. However, it is my preferred workflow to break up the model in LW in 4 pieces, unwrap the pieces in Roadkill and then recombine and scale the UV maps back in LW.

Roadkill's best feature is the interactive seam cutting and sewing. If modo has similar features, I apologize but I found assigning seams in modo more cumbersome than it should be.

I do love modo's renderer. It feels like a true successor to LW's old workhorse. It is easy to setup, easy to get good results and blazing fast.

The texturing and creating materials is a little awkward and confusing. I am puzzled as to why the change from LW? I really didnt feel like anything revolutionary needed to be done. But again, I may be a dinosaur since I dont like the node based ones like maya's either.

One thing is for sure, calling someone at Lux a traitor is shameful. I can totally empathize with being creatively frustrated.

Message edited by djolar on 6/22/2007 - 1:55 AM

You are a dinosaur.

;p

You asked for it.

So I have no idea how you can call selecting edges (defining a seam) cumbersome. Moreover, if you prefer to break your model up you can do that in modo as well. OR, you could select the polys that you WOULD cut and instead of cuting use Select Boundary to covert that poly selection into an edge selection and be done with it...

BP

Message edited by BradPeebler on 6/22/2007 - 1:57 AM

Hey!

Dinosaurs are people too! Er, um, wait a minute...
Honestly I think your "blocking point" is that you are TOO used to LW. You can use modo in a very similar way as you do LW but that does not mean you should. :) I had the same block when we first added edges. I just couldn't really undestand what was so "great" about it. But after about a week (maybe a month?) I had established completely new workflow for modeling and I was liberated.

Here is another single example of this "block". LW people ask all the time "Where is bandglue?" In modo you dbl click an edge to select the loop and hit backspace. No need for an extra plugin etc. Its a natural extension of the workflow. There are scads of this sort of thing all over modo. It is the combination of these "minor" workflow boosts that results in the flow that modo can deliver. But you have to use it like modo. :)

BP


The traitor comments are an interesting commentary on society. Some people follow the Lakers and some people follow Shaq.

BP


That's an interesting commentary on the Luxology team's old status at Newtek:P ;)


Say Brad, the wikipedia article on modo and luxology mention a rift forming but nothing really specific. I had been wondering, now I know. You should quote yourself from the post up there and put it in the article...

Message edited by RazorX on 6/22/2007 - 2:11 AM

OR, you could select the polys that you WOULD cut and instead of cuting use Select Boundary to covert that poly selection into an edge selection and be done with it...


Nice! I knew there was something I was missing.

And you are right, it is difficult to adapt/adjust. I have been using shift+, shiftk, p, shiftv, q, shifte, shiftb, shiftd,c,x,v, shiftx, ctrlt, ctrlv for what, 11 years now?
Quote from BradPeebler :

The traitor comments are an interesting commentary on society.


Amen. You should see what later happened to people in NT-land who dared suggest that Modo was a better modeler for the Lightwave workflow . . . (That's right, using Lightwave and Modo together--what a concept!)

-K

Using multiple applications used to be taboo at the vendor level. We were the first to embrace the idea and atually try to facilitate the use of many apps. it should be the artists choice.

BP
I personally never got over the treachery when Allen left VideoScape. I want my $$$ back!

;)
Personally, I never got the one tool for everything philosophy. In twenty-seven years of making 3D animation I *never* had one tool or program that could "do it all." (Gawd . . . I suddenly feel old! I've always need 2D + film editing + audio tools.)

I don't think I'll ever get over the Dodgers moving to LA . . . (ah, sweet dementia . . .)

Message edited by Henry Armitage on 6/22/2007 - 2:27 AM

Quote from Keith Brogan :
I personally never got over the treachery when Allen left VideoScape. I want my $$$ back!

;)



Um...... don't you mean Aegis?
Ah, those "traitor" comments.

I remember the first post on Newtek's forum about the subject. The thread went on and on, before Newtek locked it. Hey, I was there with supportive comments for Luxology. I should try to search for that thread. //EDIT.. on second thoughts, it's not worth rehashing those old threads.

And then there was CGTalk. They were deleting all threads about Luxology, even when there was news of the upcoming modo (before it was released). They claimed it was because it caused flames. I don't know why they just didn't delete the posts of the flamers, and let the non-flamers continue discussing it. I think CGTalk changed its policy when Lux started advertising on their site.

The Luxology crew did the best thing. They developed a 3D application the direction they (as artists & engineers) felt it should go. The 3D app could then take priority. There were no counter influences of other unrelated apps (like video editing etc) to influence decisions. modo is priority #1.

Message edited by Beamtracer on 6/22/2007 - 4:03 AM

Funny this post comes up, today i was discussing with a coworker that i used to use lightwave, but modo is what i'd always hoped for in future versions of lightwave, but never happened.
djolar: You are missing out! Once you wrap your head around the workplane and the toolpipe there is no going back.
 
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I got banned from Spinquad for having afew splits at Management
the word "modo" was censored LOL =)
it got very weird for while there .... =/


LW 9.2 ( i did do afew jobs in it last week it's just shocking )
it has not gotten better it's moved sideways and so many areas have remained untouched, and those area are it's biggest problem. it's like they work on what they can work on and leaving the reasons why people have left for later ????


when Brad and crew went off to make Modo.. all i thought was ,.. these Lux's guy's are not dumb, ( Man they Wrote LIGHTWAVE !!) they know what they got in LW code more then anyone and if they want a rewrite ..well it needs a rewrite ;)

but Lux can't pat themself on the back yet...
"ANIMATION" is a huge task to do in 3D,
Lightwave is not dead yet, Untill Modo has full animation
most Lw'ers have Maya or XSI or C4D now or at least have looked at those tools .

Lightwave got it's fans due to it being VERY CHEAP and
had alot of what the $100 000 crowd had.. today is alot different

modo 401 not only has to be able to animate as good as maya or XSI but it has to do it better to win fans over.

lightwaver's won't just compaire Modo to Lightwave,..
they will also compaire it to XSI, Maya, C4D and Max.

A hard task for the Lux boys,.
XSI is extremely good and has grown into a Powerful package and still growing just like Maya and C4D. and the plugins you get with Max now is pretty impressive.

Modo 301 will only have a basic timeline and is trying to do zbrush painting without the polygon handling power ?

Feature wise Modo 301 will only have 80% of the features of LW 9.2..

so i just don't see the need to Start to party on LW's grave yet.. there alot of work to do.

So I think if modo beats the 6th best 3D app out there,..it really doesn't mean much. it's abit like saying,.. Modo is better then truespace. =/

Modo is VERY good at what is does, But there's a lot more it has to do. to even compaire it to the LW's and Maya's of the world.

Message edited by T4D on 6/22/2007 - 4:12 AM

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